Thursday, December 28, 2017

The way forward for Land Surveying Profession in Nigeria

The way forward for Land Surveying Profession in Nigeria

There is no doubt, Land Surveying profession has experienced huge changes due to advancement in technology. This has lead experts in the field to modify its curriculum and nomenclature to Geomatics Engineering, Surveying and Geoinformatics, Geomatics etc.

Here is an extract from NASGL WhatsApp Group - National Association of Surveying and Geo-Informatics Lecturers (December, 2017)

Happy reading!

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[12/24, 6:57 AM] ‪+234706336.....‬: Great move. Hope it's Surveyors that are given the responsibility.

[12/24, 7:04 AM] ‪+234805508.....‬: We learned that the head of the EdoGIS is Architect.
& there is no SG's office in the State.

[12/24, 7:08 AM] ‪+234706336.....‬: That's serious o. Pls Geomatics Community let's do something else the mapping has failed before it began.

[12/24, 7:12 AM] ‪+234806012.....‬: that is barbaric, where can this be fight  before is completely out of hand.
Our social interactions  with other professionals are poor

[12/24, 7:20 AM] ‪+234803605.....‬: Sadly, I can assure you that the planned mapping project will not fail. Many other states have other professionals as head of their GIS and have successfully mapped their respectively states. Surveyor Generals are reduced to a mere head of unit.

[12/24, 7:22 AM] ‪+234803605.....‬: Not an issue of social interaction but what I call " poor knowledge base"

[12/24, 7:27 AM] ‪+234803362.....‬: Sorry house, was our immediate pass NIS president not from Edo State?
 With all due respect Sir / Mas; 
We know how to struggle with ourselves, majoring on minor issues in house.
But to struggle for what will benefit us as a professional family non. This is a sorry case and a slap on our face.
Its a pity for us for Edo state that have an outstanding membership in NIS?

[12/24, 8:32 AM] ‪+234703210.....‬: Yes they will employ u a d pay u pea nuts while they pocket millions and take the whole credits. Pls we shouldn't help in destroying our profession. We are still fighting for relevance

[12/24, 8:35 AM] ‪+234706336.....‬: Pls professionally speaking, who should coordinate mapping? Much as I want to be quiet on Dr. Isioye's comment, is it right and proper to make other professionals head mapping, and leave Surveyors at the level of just 'employing us to carry out the task'? and reducing our SG's to mere head of units? I am just bordered.

[12/24, 8:49 AM] ‪+234803964.....‬: Surveyors should learn to go into politics. Nobody will appoint anybody who didn't contribute to his/her election in the first place. Period.

[12/24, 9:05 AM] ‪+234809635.....‬: Dr that's the way forward, we should be involve in politics, governance and professional recognition

[12/24, 9:54 AM] ‪+234803368.....‬: The Surveyors in Edo are not aware of what the state government is during. Edo state NIS made efforts to established some controls in the state capital and presented same to the Governor, to my surprising, the Governor gave it a wave of hand.

[12/24, 10:23 AM] Ibraim oly.....hat's right Dr, our people refused to join politics and that is why we are still left behind.

[12/24, 12:28 PM] ‪+23 80 79.....2‬: Is our appreciation or understanding of GIS

[12/24, 12:36 PM] ‪+23 80 30.....9‬: Practicing academics are quick to sense this from afar & inform her institute to take the right step to avert it  on time

unlike our NIS playing amala politics with cadastral & preventing them from seeing weightier matters

[12/24, 1:18 PM] ‪+234706336.....‬: Can we start a process of involving our Surveyors in politics? May be we should start with publications, seminars etc, starting with our AGM. Pls suggest actions now for the pursuit.

[12/24, 1:20 PM] ‪+234706336.....‬: Many have the potential but do not know how and have no inspiration. All the people who were in student union politics in those days like Surv. Miller of Fed. Poly Offa, and others can be encouraged, inspired and even sponsored.

[12/24, 2:54 PM] ‪+234803362.....‬: No response to this, our immediate pass NIS President has less weight in Edo state?

[12/24, 3:29 PM] ‪+234803368.....‬: I don't think has the capacity or political well  to pilot any issues regarding the involvement of surveyors in this regard.

[12/25, 12:03 AM] ‪+23 80 40.....8‬: Concerning the on going mapping in Edo state, I am of the opinion that mapping by aerial method is not part of the professional duty of the land surveyor. It is also not included in the cadastral protection laws and not covered by the pillar nod provided by surcon. Mapping,  hydrographic, construction surveying, route mapping and other specialized surveying are part of surveying engineering which we are trying to establish in Nigeria as geomatics engineering. Until that is achieved, there is little anybody  can do to stop those who use foreign expertise to achieve their aim. The former nis President is now a Lawyer and only handles land litigation cases.

[12/25, 4:58 AM] ‪+234809635.....‬: Sir agreed, but surveyors can handle the control establishment for d aerial mapping Most of us are trained in Remote Sensing, Photogrammetry and GIS. You need to see some of the produced maps by those so called foreign experts; full or errors nd not to standard=Not useful

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[12/25, 9:53 AM] ‪+234706336.....‬: Only that, I think apart from Aerial and Hydrographic surveying and possibly mining surveying, others are within the practice of a Surveyor. The word 'land surveyor is so restrictive and very limiting sir.

[12/25, 9:58 AM] ‪+234703210.....‬: Even mining surveys are bounded by laws and are part of practices of a Surveyor

[12/25, 10:44 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....4‬: I also think that we need to diversify a bit by obtaining Msc in some related survey courses like RS, photogrammetry, cartography etc. This could help us in pursuing some jobs.

[12/25, 12:01 PM] ‪+23 80 25.....3‬: That's why Surveying suppose to be a faculty not just a department. We would have had the opportunity to study Mining Surveying, Engineering Surveying, Photogrammetry, Remote Sensing etc at 1st degree.

[12/25, 12:06 PM] ‪+23 80 36.....4‬: Also, we have to be more open minded. I could remember been told that I was deviating from survey because I did msc in GIS. You may not blame a state governor for making even a medical doctor to head the state GIS if such a medical doctor has GIS certicate. Some of our msc must not be from survey department that offer GIS

[12/25, 12:19 PM] ‪+23 70 33.....7‬: Right sir. Even if not a faculty, the options should be clear. I still remember Unilag  has sections for Hydrography, Photo grammetry and Geodesy. These should be broadened to include others like Remote Sensing, GIS, Engineering Surveys etc in all our institutions.

[12/25, 1:08 PM] ‪+234803605.....‬: The adoption of “geomatics”, “geomatics engineering” and a host of others, is just a matter of nomenclature. What is important is the objectives of the various academic programmes in our institutions of higher learning irrespective of the adopted nomenclature. Unfortunately, a good number institutions in Nigeria adopted the name “Surveying and Geoinformatics” without any recourse to the objectives of their programmes and very little was done in rebranding their curriculum. For the few institutions that rebranded their curriculum, the adopted approach to rebranding their curriculum remains an issue for future discussion. It is the function of regulatory or professional bodies to go through the objectives, content of curriculum, and decide which programme has met minimum benchmark standard and is acceptable or registrable by it. The problem with our indigenous surveying departments is not in the adoption of a new nomenclature and/or rebranding their curriculum but the inability of our departments to comprehend the challenges and prospects that follows. Sadly, very many of our teachers cannot articulate the objective(s) of the different programmes in their departments and yet they are drivers. Importantly, we must widen our horizons and think beyond the borders of cadastral surveying. We must strive to produce professionals and or scientists with very deep knowledge base; this is achievable through expanded and robust training as covered under the scope of geomatics/engineering. Poor remuneration of surveyors even in the same establishment with other allied professionals in the past may not be far from what employers perceive as “shallow knowledge base” of the surveyors. Through a robust curriculum and training as contained in the context of geomatics, we will be able to produce professionals/scientists that will always be managers over other professionals; this will help to correct the current trend of subjugating surveyors in many organisations. If we are able to produce the right professionals then we can move for appropriate legislations to protect and expand the scope of activities of the traditional surveyor beyond mines and cadastral.

[12/25, 4:41 PM] Ibrahm Ply .....t's understand geoinformatics covers most of what we think of. Even if Gis as a tool is necessary should be offered in surveying department that is My take.

[12/25, 4:53 PM] Ibrahm Ply .....of. I think the issue is political, let's encourage our members to join politics and be part of decision makers.

[12/25, 5:40 PM] ‪+234803362.....‬: Yes politics?
 But presently we have a Surveyor in d Federal cabinet (i.e.Minister of Environment) now. Yet no impact even at d Federal level for d surveyors. That is d former SURCON Registrar.

[12/25, 6:16 PM] ‪+234802364.....‬: My point is that some of survey related degree mustn't be taking in survey departments. A GIS in survey department may still carry the name surveying & Geoinfprmatics. The chief executive may not understand but Base his decision on nomenclature.

[12/25, 7:03 PM] Ibrahm Ply .....t I could still recalled that some universities like UNN also include your specialty in Master degree.

[12/25, 7:51 PM] ‪+234802364.....‬: That is good then. Some none survey department also offer them. It may really help if we  diversify so that our jobs may not end up been taking by some other profession just because the have PG certificate in some related survey field.

[12/25, 10:53 PM] ‪+23 80 50.....5‬: They take up GIS to benefit in Land: so they do LIS & call it GIS.
We are interested in Complexity & Ambiguity: so we forget Land & call for ourselves Geomatics.
Meanwhile,
Estate people in Lands were initially called Lands now take up the name Estate Surveyors.
The Innocent, Ignorant Society take what they have.
PGD, M. Sc, Ph.D in GIS : take care of our XY-GIS.
But I think simply that of our strong hold is: LAND SURVEYING.
Hydrographic is LAND.
Remote Sensing & Photogrammetry is LAND
Engineering Surveying is LAND
Cadastral Surveying is LAND

Our main STRUGGLE in Nigeria is
LAND.

[12/25, 10:59 PM] ‪+23 80 50.....5‬: Even the name Surveyors we now share it with lands people, the estate managers.

[12/25, 11:03 PM] ‪+23 80 50.....5‬: We better begin to build up real GIS & take up Geographical Governance with the GIS.

[12/25, 11:14 PM] ‪+23 80 50.....5‬: We have the highest Capacity to build up true GIS.

[12/26, 1:14 AM] ‪+234802364.....‬: That is my points. Most time we want to play the "traditional " rule. I think even the head of Niger state GIS is not a surveyor.

[12/26, 2:28 AM] ‪+234802400.....‬: This platform is meant for exchange of ideas about our profession and education in general. I have read the various views expressed on the issue of non-surveyors doing mapping to the exclusion of land surveyors. Let me add for general information that there is actually no part of aerial mapping that a land surveyoe can handle. Even the establishment of ground control is not the duty of the land surveyor because ground controls for mapping are placed according to certain requirements and the rigorous computations and analysis involved can only be done by a competent applied geodesist or geomatics engineer. Although technology is actually simplifying everything now but the statistical analysis involved in the presurvey design and post adjustment analysis is beyond the training of the cadastral survector. Let us therefore açcept that Edo state government has done the right thing in the mapping project. I am also not bothered by an  architect being the head of Gis unit. Gis is simply using the computer to process spatial data nd i rhink anyone can do that if he is good in the use of the computer and can handle coordinates. Some one commented that  we already have a department of geomatics at uneven. Let me inform all that geomatics at uneven is not the same as geomatics engineering because  geomatics is not an engineer  and is not recognised by the engineering body. The geomatics is a theoretical geodesist while the geomatics engineer is an applied geodesist who is as creative as any other engineer and has requisite knowledge in designing geospatial systems and solving environmental engineering problems. We can discuss further on these issues later. The point I am making is that geomatics enginweeing is not just a question of semantics but a real redefinition of geodesy as a subject using mathematical concepts to solve problems and that is the meaning of the term geomatics engineering  - a short form for geomathematical engineering. Thank you all.

[12/26, 6:10 AM] ‪+234805508.....‬: Thanks Prof, for the fair description of our Professional Ambiguities.
But the ability to nurture the Baby is better in the mother. Handling coordinates is not as easy (precise) for non precision experts. That I suppose is why you placed condition for the Architect heading.

[12/26, 6:21 AM] ‪+234805508.....‬: But, I'll ask, why are "Geo" people handling Land.
I think it's because 
Geo is Earth. 
Earth is Land.
To the ordinary man who is the Employer. His resources are so limited for resolution of Ambiguities.
The matter is for the to judge. He is not here, sir.

[12/26, 7:09 AM] ‪+234902669.....‬: Land Surveyors are not trained to carry out mapping. It's the combine efforts of  the Photogrammetrist,  Cartographers , Geographers and 'Geodetic Surveyors - to provide ground controls'. Land Surveyors in Nigeria believed that they are the master of all the specialised area of Surveying. This is wrong hence if you are a cadastral surveyors you should handle cadastral  jobs while an hydrographers also handle his bit etc. At least 70% or more surveyors in Nigeria are Cadastral Surveyors. I think classification need be done so that  future discursion would be constructive.

[12/26, 8:15 AM] Ibrahm Ply .....think that is the simple answer to our problem, no body considered what you read in decision making except we make ourselves relevance in national assembly to sponsor our bills else we remain where we are.

[12/26, 8:21 AM] Ibrahm Ply ..... we can recall, how many time Nigeria sponsored people to go and study overseas and come back not part of decisions and even relevant.

[12/26, 9:40 AM] ‪+234803705.....‬: The only option for us is to foster d fight for faculty of surveying with hydro,geodesy, photo/remote sensing, engineering, mining cadastral and GIS as departments. This is d hope nd future of surveying. take or leave it.

[12/26, 9:53 AM] ‪+234803368.....‬: This is what is obtainable in Russia. They have it as a university not even as a faculty. Starting as a faculty is good too

[12/26, 9:55 AM] Ibrahm Ply .....eating faculty of surveying cannot solve the problem at hand except creating employment for those who wants to be lecturer.

[12/26, 9:58 AM] ‪+234803605.....‬: I do not know if the Council for the Regulation of Engineering in Nigeria (COREN) recognizes geomatics engineering as any of its specialized fields. I know in a place like Canada, the semantics is “geomatics engineering” and the Canadian Engineering Accreditation Board (CEAB) accredits it. In Nigeria, for a programme to be accepted or accredited by COREN it has to meet the minimum benchmark standards for all engineering programmes; what this implies is that students of geomatics engineering programme will have to take more engineering courses (i.e., engineering drawing, material science, strength of materials, structures, thermodynamics, hydraulics etc.) up 200 & 300 levels. In so doing, students of geomatics engineering programme are over burden with issues that will never come to play in actual practice even if they get COREN accreditation. Notably, this is not the case with CEAB. In most Canadian universities, geomatics engineering programmes are industry driven and have their focus on practical solutions utilizing emerging trends and technologies in the geospatial industry. The fact that geomatics engineering programmes in Canada are industry driven make it easy for CEAB accreditation without the inclusion of undesired engineering courses in their programmes. Sadly, the structure of our universities in Nigeria differs and there is an apparent disconnect between Nigerian universities and the industries. 
In my opinion, I suggest that we look inwards and widen our horizons rather than run to engineers for accreditation. We should re-direct the objectives and content of our curriculum in our various universities. The objectives of our degree programmes should reflect in our products. Traditional survey departments irrespective of brand name should brace up for the award of specialized degrees both at under- & post- graduate levels in as many specialization as possible or based on their respective strength.  Option of a faculty to accommodate all in geospatial industry may be considered.Thereafter, SURCON may need to rebrand as well to accommodate the different professionals in the geospatial industry as would be produced by the universities. Firstly, there may be the need to re-name SURCON by legislation and secondly, amend the act establishing it to give room to expand the scope of registration to capture the different specialities in the geo-spatial industry (i.e., registered geomantic engineer, hydrographer, photogrammetric, geodetic surveyor etc.). In the geospatial industry, until, the right and adequate personnel are on ground we cannot control who participate, does not, and why? 
My take.

[12/26, 11:11 AM] ‪+23 80 69.....6‬: I don't think we have surveying engineering at unilag, rather surveying and Geoinformatics but under d faculty of engineering.

[12/26, 1:40 PM] ‪+234802364.....‬: Thanks to what prof said. I always tell my student that Surveyors do not have monopoly of GIS, RS etc because any professionals can do a PG program in those field and apply the to solve their own problems .

[12/26, 1:44 PM] ‪+234802364.....‬: On point sir. Capacity building is what we should focus. We have to on ways to make our curriculum better to reflect the modern needs

[12/26, 2:12 PM] ‪+234802400.....‬: I am very impressed by the submission of Dr isioye on the topic of geomatics as alternative to land surveying. However, I also got the impression that although we know the sole duty of the surveyor is to make static maps of areas for various uses, we are satisfied for the surveyors role to continue in that way and even establish a faculty for it. We seem not to realise that modern technology has so simplified survey methods and instrumentation so that less learning is required to know survey that the drive of modern technology is to eliminate the human component from data collection as much as possible. Todat we have scanners of alĺ types and drones with lidar  systems for both land and water mapping. We need to  understand the trend and make professional adjustments to remain relevant. The geomatics engineering provides us the unique opportunity to become creative and not supplier of maps which Google is providing free-of-charge. We seem not to realise that more than 90 per cent of highway design and construction is surveying but a surveyor can never be allowed to design it. The reality of geomatics engineering is that it makes the surveyor to become creative and involved in solving environmental problems. There is a new programme now being planned by gov. It is called subsea engineering  and a surveyor is not considered to be part of it even though he may be an expert in bathymetry. Subsea engineering curriculum involved bathymetry and complete hydrographic survey, wave analysis and hydrodynamic concepts. In order for us to be relevant in today's market, there is  need to go beyond learming how to construct map and become creative. This can only be achieved through knowledge- based training and not hands-on skiĺl acquisition. This is why the curriculum for geomatics engineering has been designed such that he will be equipped to create mathematical, optical, numerical, graphical and physical models of real life issues and proffer solutions. We need courses such thermodynamics, mechanics, geophysics, geology, highway engineering, underwater mapping, Eto to fill the gaps left in the current survey curriculum by modern technology. Let me end this piece by reminding us that COREN does not have a fixed set of courses called engineering. You can design your own curriculum nd present to them for consideration so long as it has subjects in mathematics, physics, thermodynamics, workshop practice in common with other programmes and is domiciled in the faculty of engineering. Let us always think of ways to improve our profession. Remember that surveying engineering is the applied geodesy and that almost aĺl the scientists who formulated all the engineering concepts were geodesists: isaac Newton, Pythagoras, Kepler, la place, Lagrange, Fourier, stokes, etc. We are at liberty to design our curriculum for creativity. We do not need any changes if cadastral practice is our goal. Thank you all.

[12/26, 3:03 PM] ‪+234805508.....‬: You sound like let's be united to fight as one for the Land in question. Our differences is only an internal partition for effective operations. Even specialized experts without platform & sensors  plus experience will need a lot of help for Project acquisition & execution.

[12/26, 3:38 PM] ‪+234706340.....‬: Well done and thank u sir.
Hmm Depth is the Key....

Pls I hope we someone is collating all these great views, so NASGL can formulate a policy and each member can push it through at our various institutions when the time comes.......

No better justification for the programme than some of the views we are already sharing now.

[12/26, 4:35 PM] ‪+234706336.....‬: I am delighted with all the contributions. Prof. Olaleye sir, thank you. Dr. Isioye, thank you. Dr. IJA well done sir. This is the joy in NASGL. God bless you sirs.

Now my dialema is where do we actually belong? Engineering or Environmental? Then I am hearing the name Surveyors in diversity especially  Cadastral and Geodetic. Is it possible we outline each surveying offering institutions in Nigeria with exactly what surveyors they are producing. My reason is this: if establishing ground control points can not be done by a 'land' surveyors who passed out from say Unilag (where I passed thru) then what were the essence of all the rigorous adjustment computations, advanced mathematical methods etc. If an HND holder from FSS can't also do (as a Surveyor), I think something needs to be done. I think with the basic understanding we all went through in our undergraduates, little training should be needed in the specifics to handle tasks. We said surveying is the bed rock of meaningful development, pls which of them? Why are surveyors excluded in some designs (road, route)? Are they not to be part of our duties. Is the definition and duties of a surveyor by Wolf and Ghillani  a mere flatter? Kindly help my dialema sirs/mas.

[12/26, 4:40 PM] ‪+234706340.....‬: Further dilemma for me, if geomatics Engr comes on board and cld carry out survey jobs just like the typical cadastral SURV as his other areas of competence......how registrable will his typical surveying work be which are regulated by SURCON and not COREN?

[12/26, 4:41 PM] ‪+234703210.....‬: I also hv similar thoughts with u. However, I am certain surveyors can n hv been establishing ground controls. The training obtained from some of these institutions is all encompassing.

[12/26, 7:40 PM] ‪+234806777.....‬: This touched down on the current situation analysis of our profession. Much thanks Sir.

[12/26, 7:50 PM] ‪+234806777.....‬: I wish to have more enlightenment on the possible way forward towards revamping this profession. What are the foundation blocks to be laid to chatter a new course for the profession in relation to current global trends in geoscience and geoengineering (if there's anything like that)? Can we identify the steps that we (the future) can pursue towards ensuring the realization of the goals of our heroes past and present for the profession. Thanks.

[12/26, 9:30 PM] ‪+234803068.....‬: Answerable to COREN & Registered by COREN as an engineer. Answerable to SURCON/NIS & registered by SURCON as a Surveyor. Answerable to NBA & registered by NBA as a barrister at law. 
.... *This is applicable to any statutorily recognized professional/registration body in Nigeria*

[12/26, 10:37 PM] ‪+23 80 40.....8‬: The curriculum of geomatics engineering covers the modern concepts of land surveying and goes beyond it by adding core engineering courses and engineering design methods. As you may know, the curriculum of land surveying is now very small and the content of it can be covered in matter of a few semesters. Therefore, the geomatics engineer will be essentially an engineer registered with the engineering body but will also be a registered cadastral surveyor with SURCON. This is the practice the world over except in Nigeria. Remember that SURCON has always registered surveying engineers from overseas based on the curriculum. Examples are those surveyors who trained in the USA and in Canada. You may also want to confirm that most of the currently registered surveyors are in this category apart from newly graduated one's from our institutions. The geomatics engineer cannot register with NBA or NMA. He is purely a surveying engineer that can also handle land surveying.

[12/27, 1:32 AM] ‪+234802400.....‬: Concerning the surveying programmes located in environmental faculty, the products of such training will have a bias for land Surveying and cadastral map- making for land market operations and perimeter definition for site design by architects or route design by an engineer. They do not have the engineering flavour and cannot appreciate the significance of engineering creativity. Surveying engineering requires familiariry with basic enginnering modules such as basic principles of engineering pracrice and design, thermodynamics, geology,  geophysics, applied mathematical physics and hydrology/hydraulics. It will therefore be didficult to offer these additional courses from outside the engineering faculty. I am sure that by the time the programme takes off in one of our universities, we will be able to workout an arrangement that will suite those that are wrongly located. Surveying engineering is applied geodesy which is also the basis for the theories used in engineering. It therefore cannot be outside the engineering precinct. I will be interested for any one that can tell me of any other country where surveying is grouped with estate management, quantity surveying, quality surveying. Architecture started as an engineering discipline and took off from military engineering together with Civil and Surveying engineering. Let us just keep our mind open. Thank you.

[12/27, 10:14 AM] ‪+23 80 60.....4‬: Subsequently, I will furnish the forum with the pros and cons of "Geomatics engineering"/ " Geomatics" programmes based on  experiences from ABU.

[12/27, 10:38 AM] ‪+23 80 50.....5‬: I am also thinking about,
Surveying students doing enough engineering courses to qualify him come back to school of engineering after B. Eng or B. Tech or B. Sc  in Surveying. Back to Civil final year to bag the degree in civil engineering which is the registerable of COREN.
Like this they will bag 2 Nigerian standard degrees.

Later or even now we need to work on the poetics of NUC & COREN plus SURCON.

[12/27, 10:39 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....9‬: I'm aware that Coren is already thinking of starting Geomatics Engineering in Nigerian universities. In fact the programme was designed and sent to coren by Engr. Surv. prof. J. O. Ehiorobo the DC administration and Dean of the faculty of Environmental sciences, University of Benin.

[12/27, 10:41 AM] ‪+23 70 50.....4‬: A friend once told me that in Ghana, the surveying and civil engineering students received the same level of training from 100 level to the final year except that the surveying students will take more of geodesy courses while civil engineering students take more of water engineering/ hydrology courses.

[12/27, 10:50 AM] ‪+23 70 50.....4‬: Honestly, we need to organise a gathering of NASGL for us to harness all these discussions and come up with revised curriculum that will serve as guidelines for NUC and NBTE. This was done in 1998 when the curriculum was changed from Land Surveying to Surveying and Geoinformatics.

[12/27, 10:52 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....9‬: Some us from Uniben are already member of Nigerian society of Engineers, attending their meetings and conferences. We planned to present a leading paper on this issue in next NSE conference coming up in October 2018 holding in Kanu

[12/27, 10:53 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....9‬: Plans is also underway to have Nigerian Institution of Geomatics Engineers under NSE

[12/27, 10:54 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....4‬: With the trend now, surveyors are really better as engineers because we have more in common.

[12/27, 10:55 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....9‬: I'm an Engineer and a Surveyor, but I don't know of others please.

[12/27, 10:56 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....9‬: My PhD is Geodesy and Geomatics Engineering

[12/27, 10:59 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....9‬: What is constant in life is change, NIS/SURCON most embrace this New trends and not fighting for pillar numbers.

[12/27, 11:00 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....4‬: The problem in Nigeria sometimes is double standard. Many people that study surveying abroad did it in engineering and are registered in Nigeria. So nothing should stop us from offering Geomatics engineering. Currently I am under the faculty of engineering doing my PhD

[12/27, 11:00 AM] ‪+23 70 50.....4‬: Is there a way for HND direct entry students to join the program at UNIBEN?

[12/27, 11:03 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....9‬: HND starts from years 3, but the candidate most take entry exams and pass with minimum 50% before the candidate will be give admission

[12/27, 11:03 AM] ‪+23 70 04.....8‬: Yes, and with this development a Surveyor working with engineers will now be rightly respected. Infact there a great need for the curriculum in surveying to be extended so that graduates can utilize to the fullest capacity their skills in surveying in the various application areas. This will bridge the much widening gap.

[12/27, 11:04 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....9‬: We running M.Eng and PhD programmes in Geomatics Engineering now in Uniben.

[12/27, 11:07 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....9‬: Our undergraduate students will take Engineering courses till final year. It was accredited by SURCON. In my view SURCON is not our problem but individual institutions. We want to remain where we are since our undergraduate time.

[12/27, 11:09 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....9‬: If you need copy of curriculum, come to Uniben.

[12/27, 11:11 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....9‬: The curriculum is on personal request please. I'm sorry

[12/27, 11:13 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....9‬: We already have a Surveyor registered as an Engineer with coren and by 2018, two more will be added.

[12/27, 11:18 AM] ‪+23 70 34.....2‬: There is no point killing ourselves over the title surveyor..... Cos it's not exclusive kind of to us alone as even quantity surveyors or estate surveyors are even reckoned with more to be the "surveyor" in most cases......
Than the other surveyor who has no better way to distinguish himself than to limit himself to Land surveyor....

It's high time we shifted ......surveyor sunnnn

[12/27, 11:21 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....4‬: I just discovered that my school where I am doing my PhD expected me to have some engineering background since I did surveying and Geoinformatics. I have to  tell them that surveying is not under engineering where i did my undergraduate. We have to align ourselves with what is happening around the world because most of our student will go for further studies abroad and they may need some basic engineering knowledge to help them in competing with their counterparts from other countries

[12/27, 11:23 AM] ‪+23 80 29.....8‬: I graduated from A.B.U. in 1998 with a certificate reading "Bachelor of Engineering (Land Surveying)" the first set of that title. I would make a point with respect SURCON/NIS, we will not fight them because that is our origin and as a result of technology affecting all areas of life, SURCON/NIS is not excepted and as such creating new body as Nigeria Institution of Geomatics Engineers shouldn't be, but transforming NIS by giving it a new name. Geomatics originate from Land Surveying.

[12/27, 11:38 AM] ‪+23 80 96.....2‬: We want to be called Engineers as well as surveyors; may be Surv. Engr.... or Engr. Surv...... Then,  the regulatory bodies; SURCON & COREN should be engaged to work out the proper and acceptable modalities for fusion or else I see the Engineers questioning the motives of the Surveyors.

[12/27, 11:38 AM] ‪+23 70 29.....0‬: Dr. Ralph, is the admission ongoing now or coming later? That is the HND direct entry programming.

[12/27, 11:39 AM] ‪+23 70 29.....0‬: Programme

[12/27, 11:40 AM] ‪+23 80 36.....4‬: There are people who are surveyors and engineers already.

[12/27, 1:24 PM] ‪+234803725.....‬: Compliments of the season to all. Some time-bound international commitments and personal issues haven't given me the chance to contribute to the lively discussions on the future of our profession on this platform. I quite remember that the discussions started when I posted a GIM write-up on the need to rebrand Geomatics to emphasise "geospatial". This goes to show that knowledge is dynamic and as people say, "the only room that is permanently vacant is the room for improvement". My suggestion at this moment is to seriously work towards having the first NASGL Conference (workshop/symposium?) unfailingly next year where we will address the following issues beyond semantics and rhetorics (1) look at the current BMAS of NUC and NBTE for S & G vis-a-vis the proposed curriculum for Geomatics engineering; (2) identify the essential subjects that are missing (3) dispassionately consider which faculty will be best suited for the new envisaged curriculum: (4 ) strategize the modality to get NUC and NBTE to adopt appropriate placement (based on our experience at OAU, NUC insists that S&G must be placed in Environmental Sciences even when our own students at OAU have more courses in common with students in the Faculty of Technology than EDM) (5) work with SURCON to come up with a new BMAS. Of course, all these can't be concluded in a single conference but we would have set the ball rolling with time lines for the activities. Permit me to end this contribution by stating that the issue shouldn't be a desire to want to be an Engineer but to ensure that we work towards being recognised as the ones in charge of geospatial science and technology in all its ramifications. Happy new year to us all.

[12/27, 1:42 PM] ‪+234806777.....‬:
With all sense of respect and honor to all the Profs, Doctors and other members of this enviable academia, I want to suggest we adopt this proposition by Prof Kufoniyi towards chartering a new course that's in consonance with global developments in Geo sciences and engineering for our profession. Thanks.

[12/27, 2:36 PM] ‪+234802400.....‬: I am particularly happy that the aim of creating this NASGL platform is now a reality. I am also trilled by the different comments and information from aĺl of us concerning the profession of surveying ney geomatics engineering. I want to remind Dr. Isioye that it was the department of surveying of the university of Lagos that first proposed  change of name. I was the first to suggest the introduction of geomatics engineering way back in 1998. Many  of our colleagues did not agree with me and so we adopted surveying & geoinformatics. Nonetheless, I think the effort made by ABU failed because proper procedure was not followed. The proper procedure recommended by COREN was to get the curriculum approved by your university Senate and then get Nuc approval before approaching COREN. I also think it was wrong for people to say that NUC has grouped surveying with environmental faculty. Nuc does not group courses, but university senate does it. The issue is that when nuc prepared the BMAS for surveying, there were not many professors of surveying at that time nd so they used resource persons from geography, town plañing and others in environmental faculty who presented surveying as land  surveying and put it where it is now. Worse still, when me of our own professors came on board, they felt it was not important which faculty surceying was. Going forward, we are now following  the proper peocedure and we are almost there. Let me also expressed my happiness at the information from dr. Raph of uniben concerning the existence of geomatics engineering. The initial information we have is that you are running geomatics and not geomatics engineering. However, I will like to know if coren has approved your programme. Also we will like to know if any of your staff has been registered as a geomatics engineer and not just  member of NSE. These are the processes we are going through now and we are almost at the end. There is need for us to harmonize our curriculums based on sound research and deep knowlledge of what the role of the geomatics engineer is in the council of engibeers. Our curiculum also covers land surveying courses so that any registered geomatics engineer may approach SURCON registration as land surveyors if they choose. COREN has accepted and in fact found out that in many countries, survey engineers register as a second option with land surveying body. Let Dr. Raph give us more information on the status of their staff with coren. WE are currently engaging coren to accept some of our old graduates as pioneer geomatics engineers. We have been asked to put forward such cases after the nuc approval.

[12/27, 2:45 PM] ‪+234803368.....‬: Engr. Surv. Prof. Ehiorobo has been registered by coren. Two others are MNSE and to become registered in 2018 by coren. Our undergraduate degree programme is still been run in the faculty of Environmental sciences as Geomatics. Our postgraduate programme is run in the faculty of engineering. We hope to more the undergraduate programme to engineering soon. But we are taking courses in Engineering now.

[12/27, 3:02 PM] ‪+234802400.....‬: That's okay. Let us endeavour to keep in touch. I will give updates on these issues as they come. Thank Dr. Raph.

[12/27, 3:04 PM] ‪+234803605.....‬: The introduction of Geomatics engineering like any other Programme  in ABU must get university senate approval. The problem started with NUC. This was further asserted by Prof Kufoniyi  from OAU in item(4) of his submission.


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